Minutes of Meetings - February 1999
Animal Procedures Committtee APC (99) 1st Meeting
Minutes of the meeting held on 10 February 1999
| Present |
Professor Banner (Chairman)
Professor Anderson
Professor Atterwill
Mr Baker
Professor Broom
Professor Bulfield
Dr Clark
Professor Clark
Professor Dunbar
Mr Gregory
Mr Holland
Dr Jennings
Professor Johnston
Dr Langley
Professor Martin
Professor McNeilly
Dr Purchase
Dr Suckling
Professor Turner
Mr Ward |
Home Office
Mr Evans
Ms Cotton
Inspectorate
Dr Richmond
Dr Anderson
Secretariat
Mr Hartley
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1. Apologies for absence
1.1 Apologies had been received from Professor Flecknell, Professor Richardson,
Dr Southee, Miss Sinclair and Mr Wilkes.
1.2 Mrs MacArthur Clark had resigned from the committee following her
appointment as Chairman of the Farm Animal Welfare Council.
2. Minutes of the meeting held on 10 December
2.1 It was agreed that there should be an indication that Barry Horne's
hunger strike was discussed in the context of item 5. Action: Secretariat
2.2 The minutes were agreed.
3. Matters Arising
3.1 There were complications in the process of the appointment of the
Secretary as appeals and representations had to be heard. It was unlikely
that an appointment would be made before the end of March.
3.2 Arrangements for the Minister's Forum on animal use were progressing.
Consideration of logistics and security issues meant the Forum was unlikely
to take place before May.
3.3 The Committee should be informed at its next meeting of the current
position of the application requesting primate use for liver xenotransplantation
research.
4. Code of Conduct and Register of Interests - APC(99)1
4.1 It was agreed that members should update the Secretariat during the
year if their positions or interests changed, and should err on the side
of openess.
4.2 Some members, particularly those who had retired, found that Committee
membership involved them in costs they could not easily recoup. Professor
Broom had written to Mr Howarth on a number of issues, including payment
of members. He noted that FAWC members were paid (£109 per meeting).
However, another view was that members should not be paid as this was
incompatible with a commitment to public service. The issue of payment
for members, and expenses, would be considered at a later meeting. Views
on this should be sent to the Secretariat in writing. Professor Broom's
letter to Mr Howarth would be copied to the next meeting. Action: All
Members
4.3 The position on insurance cover for members had been complicated
by the possible inclusion of crimes connected to animal extremism under
forthcoming terrorism legislation.
4.4 A gloss on the Code would be produced by the Secretariat covering
other relevant matters not immediately dealt with in the Code.
4.5 The Code would be amended to reflect the constitutional position
that members are appointed as individuals and not as representatives of
particular interest groups or organisations.
4.6 Some applications seen by the Committee might contain commercial
information, and raise conflicts of interest for some members. Paragraph
7(iv) of the current Code indicated that members should withdraw from
Committee discussions where there was a conflict of interest, but a potential
difficulty remained as members should avoid using or benefiting from information
that had been disclosed to them in licence applications. This issue would
be dealt with in the gloss. Action: Secretariat
5. Work Programme - APC(99)2
5.1 Professor Broom introduced his paper [INF(99)7]. It was agreed that
the elements concerned with cost/benefit should be referred to the cost/benefit
working group; and that those concerned with regulatory issues should
be included among the miscellaneous issues from the Review of the Act.
A small group needed to be established to take these miscellaneous issues
forward.Action: Members and Secretariat
5.2 One of the issues raised was whether there was a need to change
the Act, or whether there were ways of introducing regulatory change which
did not involve legislation. An analogy was made to the relationship between
a road traffic act and the highway code. The latter could be adjusted
without changing the former.
5.3 The Primate sub-committee needed new members. Professor Banner and
Professor Dunbar would take this matter forward. Action: Professor
Banner & Professor Dunbar
5.4 The Chairman of the sub-committee introduced the work of the Research
and Alternatives sub-committee.
5.5 The work programme of the Education and Training sub-committee was
noted.
5.6 Clarification was requested on the ownership of the research budget,
as a recent Parliamentary Question indicated that it was a Home Office
budget, and that the Committee only advised on how it should be allocated.
The Committee's advice, to date, had always been accepted.
5.7 The conference could be used to discuss the work of the working groups,
and to forward plan the committee's programme.
5.8 The Secretariat and the Chairman would identify dates and possible
locations for the conference. Action: Secretariat & Chairman
6. Induction Programme - APC(99)3
6.1 The recent induction meeting for new members had been useful. A member
commented that he found it slightly disquieting that the fees paid by
animal users met the costs of the Committee. The chairman agreed that
funding issues needed to be considered by the Committee. He also thought
guidance papers for members needed to be expanded.
7. APC Website - APC(99)4
7.1 It was agreed to include the APC web site on the Home Office site.
The relationship between the Committee and the Home Office could be explained
in the site. Proposals for site content would be brought to the next meeting.
Action: Secretariat
8. Infringements - APC(99)5
8.1 The most common way in which infringements came to the attention
of the Inspectorate was by licensees "informing" on themselves. It was
less common for Inspectors to witness infringements, and even less for
third party information to be presented to Inspectors.
8.2 A recurrent feature of infringements was the lack of knowledge of
conditions on the project or personal licence. This was an issue which
should be taken up by the Education and Training sub-committee. Action:
Education & Training sub-committee
8.3 Some infringements could also be thought of as technical breaches
arising because licence authorities were too detailed. In these cases
animal welfare was not always jeopardised.
8.4 A contrary view was that there was not excessive detail in authorities.
Licensees were simply not taking enough time to consider their authorities
and to refresh their memories from time to time.
8.5 Excessive detail in the authorities could impede research work from
starting new and unexpected lines of enquiry in the middle of the programme.
However, there were administrative mechanisms for dealing with this situation.
8.6 Compliance was not just a question of attention to detail but of
attitude as well. This was an issue which could be addressed in training
and in the ethical review process. Good practice was also identified in
certificate holders insisting that written protocols were submitted to
an independent check before enactment.
8.7 It was suggested that the level of detail in the descriptions of
infringements being presented to the committee still needed adjustment
? more detail was required.
9. Primates from the Philippines - APC(99)6
9.1 The primate deaths in-transit had been investigated by MAFF and were
almost certainly due to the fact that the animals were too large for the
crates. The animals had been in the central crates of blocks of five crates.
International Air Transport Association (IATA) regulations did not specify
crate size. The supplier had already enlarged the crate size. The supplier
had been co-operative and helpful in the investigations.
9.2 It was agreed that there were a number of issues about reconfirming
the supplier as a suitable source which could only be judged in the wider
context of primate supply from overseas sources. No specific advice was
offered to the Home Office, but the primate sub-committee should examine
the general issue. MAFF studies on animal transport could be utilised
if necessary. Action: Primate sub-committee
10. Biotechnology Review: Chairman's letter to the Office of Science
and Technology APC(99)7
10.1 One member commented that communications between the United Kingdom
Xenotransplantation Interim Regulatory Authority (UKXIRA) and the APC
were poor.
10.2 In addition, the extent and the limitations of the APC's ethical
concerns needed to be made clear to Office of Science and Technology (OST).
There were ethical concerns about biotechnology which went beyond concerns
about animal suffering and distress.
10.3 A further letter would be written to the OST reflecting these comments.
Action: Chairman and Secretariat
11. All Party Group for Animal Welfare - APC(99)8
11.1 It was agreed that a small team of members and the chairman would
meet with the above group to discuss mutual concerns and to see if further
meetings were worthwhile. Action: Chairman & members
12. Any other business
12.1 The member list for the Certificate Holders' Forum would be circulated.
Action:Secretariat
12.2 The Chief Inspector's paper on humane endpoints should be read by
a wider public, and could be examined in greater detail at the residential
meeting.
12.3 The meeting between the Home Office and grant awarding bodies would
take place on March 24th. Mr Evans would report back to the
Committee on the meeting. Action:Mr Evans 13. Date of next meeting
13.1 The next meeting would be held on 7th April.
Secretariat
February 1999
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